Poisoned Horses

Clint Griess 0:00 Okay, hello everyone. And welcome to the International fluoride free teleconference for May 2014. These monthly events are dedicated to activists from all over the world, sharing information and experiences with each other to increase our overall effectiveness in local, state and national campaigns.

Today's topic is poisoned horses. And we're going to hear from some experts about the effects of fluoridation on horses and other animals, and implications that has for us human beings. My name is Clint Griess. And I am honored to be your host today. First, we're going to hear from Kathy justice of Pagosa Springs, who together with her husband Wayne racehorses in Colorado and who found out the deleterious effects of fluoride after their communities began to fluoridate the water there. We'll also hear from Dr. Richard sour Heever, a chemist and professor at Palomar community college in Southern California. And then, in the next hour, we're going to hear from Dr. Larry Kelly, a veterinarian with a special interest in dentistry who has done some amazing work on using chemical analysis of bones and other tissue to find out the concentrations of fluoride is accumulated there. And then we'll always have toward the end of period, extensive period of question and answer so you can get your questions answered from these from this panel of experts. Today's presentation has a fair amount of imagery to go with it, we have photographs of bones and other other things. So if you haven't already got the application running, please either open an email that was sent to you about 20 minutes ago with a link. Or you can go to the Facebook page for the International fluoride free teleconference and click on today's event where you'll find that same link, so that you're able to watch along as the presenters discuss the fluoridation effects that you can see visibly on in the horses in their bones.

So we'll be together for about two hours. And at the end of the official period of the teleconference, you also have the opportunity to remain on the line and be put into small groups with other activists from all over where you can get to know each other on a casual basis in small breakout groups. And that's an optional part of the teleconference. It's very popular. Thanks for everyone for coming today. Your participation is what makes these teleconferences a success. So let's go ahead and begin with Kathy justice from Pagosa. Springs. Kathy, say hello to everyone.

Kathy Justice 3:08 Hi, everybody.

Clint Griess 3:12 Yes, it's been great to working with you, Kathy, I want to acknowledge you for all the work that you've done over the years. It's really inspiring. And it's just great that people like you take the time to work on ending fluoridation, but also, you know, take even more time out of your schedule to present to everyone so that the world can learn about what's going on in your particular corner of the globe.

Kathy Justice 3:36 Well, I've decided I'm not going to allow my horses to have died in vain I they died for a reason for me to learn and learn a lot. And for me to spread the word of what's happening. Great, so

Clint Griess 3:51 why don't you go ahead and summarize your story so far, because I know a lot of people thank goodness, we've gotten video of you and your stories. You know, point in horses on YouTube has gotten many many hits. And so we have most people on the line have a general idea of of your story, but much could summarize anyway.

Kathy Justice 4:10 Well, I was raised in Southern California, a small town in Fallbrook and my dad raised 32 varieties of organically grown fruit that he shipped all over the United States back in the 40s. So he was into alternative health and eating and everything long before it was popular and and being that I was the only girl my dad was it and he studied health. And I would follow him around and read with him at night and to learn things. And I remember one of the things that I learned Dad told me the town that I was raised in was non fluoridated. But he said do not ever go to a fluoridated town to live in because fluoride is poison and we went through some of the things that he had learned from his huge library of holistic books and It just kind of put that back in my mind because it didn't concern me. We moved to Pagosa Springs in 78. And the horses were fine until 85. And all of a sudden, the first manifestation of anything was chronic colic. And we couldn't figure out what in the world was causing the colics. And we started changing feeds, changing sources of feed, doing all that we could do to figure out that what was called causing the colic, and nothing changed, the ailments just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And just one day, it just kind of came to me the light bulb came on, you know, could it be the water, I didn't even know that they had fluoridated the water in 85. I just assumed it was the same water out of the river that we had been getting. And so I called up the water department and they said, Oh, yeah, we've flirted the water. Isn't that a good thing? So it was my theory. I didn't have any positive science. It was just my theory. Well, we were having vets out all the time and changing vets. And we even took to the mayor's to our mayor's to Colorado State University, that were having reproductive problems and skin problems and hoof problems and skeletal problems and all kinds of problems. And every single one of the vets when I would bring up fluoride, like I said, it was my theory, they'd look at me like I was nuts. And and say, Well, you know, there's no way that horse could be floored and poisoned going by the amount that the National Academy of Science came up with. Turns out that in 1971, the cover story of the National Veterinary journal was clinical I think it was called clinical aspects of fluoride poisoning and horses. And in night, if the 1974 I believe it was the National Research Council National Academy of Sciences took that article who was written by two authors and put it in the I don't know what you call it the the literature for horses

Dr. Creek wrote about this in in the first peer reviewed manuscripts that's in the journal fluoride explains exactly how this happened. Let me read a little bit is noted earlier, the fluoride concentrations in the fluoridated water range from 0.35 to 1.3 parts per million, that's how much fluoride we had in our water. Later, in 78, the National Academy of Sciences reported on nutrient requirements of horses, states that the need for water intake in horses is two to four times and it goes through the whole thing of calculating this. If we consider the most extreme situation with the Bossa horses, their intake of fluoride in parts per million of dry matter would be only a fraction of the so called tolerance level that they use here of 660 that six oh parts per million, I can hear the gap now of dry matter cited by the National Academy of Sciences. This 60 parts per million figure first appears in 1974 article by Shoop and Olson titled all its clinical aspects of fluorosis in horses and conserves breeding and lactating animals the same figure is then repeated in 1974 in math and RC publication effects of fluoride and animals this time is the tolerance level so they're changing their title of it for performance defined as levels that on the basis of published data for the apt for that species could be fed without interference with normal performance that okay, well get over a little bit it says no mention whatsoever to support the their statement there was no no supporting anything. Anyway, it goes down to say that the the, this was paid for by the fluoride polluting industries, Does this sound familiar to anybody? And the authors were on the payroll of the fluoride Glenny industries and their and what they say in this National Research Council Report totally contradicts itself. It one template that says this is it and the other time there it says there's no science to prove it. So, anyway, that's why the vets were saying that there's no way because the, it's the amount that a horse can consume is so highly exaggerated in inflated. And the problem is, is that same amount is put into the Merck veterinary manual. So they're going by what they're saying, not what is true. So anyway, the symptoms just continued to grow and the vets all they wanted to do is treat symptoms and unless you treat the cause the symptoms are just going to get worse. I'm going to lay read off some of the symptoms and of course, these are just major titles there were all kinds of other things that would go under these titles. The colleagues that neurological problems kidney problems, Cushing's disease, equine metabolic syndrome, breathing and lung problems, reproductive problems, skeletal fluorosis, thyroid problems, skin lesions, hoof deformities, personality changes, thinness, dental fluorosis, early onset of pure puberty, Alzheimer's and cancer. Does that sound familiar to anybody who's been studying fluoride poisoning in April, pretty much the same kind of a thing. So in 2003, and four, we've been having a drought here for almost 25 years and not been having the winters like we used to. And in 2003, and 2000, for the winter of, we got snow and we had snow on the ground all winter long. And we noticed we have these big 100 gallon tanks. And in the winter, we just at that time, were just filling one and keeping it heated for the horses. And that was, besides their, their automatic waters that they had in their stalls. And we noticed that they, we normally filled it once every day to day and a half. And we were only filling it one every day, that 18 to 19 days. So I noticed that the horses were eating snow, they would rather eat the freezing snow in the freezing weather, then eat that warm what looked like clean water. So the light bulb came on a whole lot brighter for me. And

we finally found a person that would allow us to use their water rights and we got a big tank and started filling it. And the first symptom that went away was the colic and the other chronic symptoms that were not too far gone started abating too. So the light bulb came on even brighter. Well in 2000 Fall of 2004 I lost my my gorgeous, beautiful, wonderful broodmare Baby Doe. And it was the straw that broke the camel's back. She was the fifth one that we had lost from these very strange on on diagnoseable problems. And each one of them had many problems, not just one problem. So we had the vet come out and and pay for a new cropsy. And I told the vet that I specifically wanted her to test for chronic fluoride poisoning. And she looked at me like I was nuts and said, Well, there's no such thing. This was this is a vet that we had never had before yet another Vet. And so anyway, what you see on your screen here we i She did the necropsy and she took all soft tissue and serum, she didn't take any bone and send it off and everything came back negative. She she had mentioned that many of the different problems could be related to a particular thing like West Nile and EPM and botulism, and I said test her for everything you can think of everything came back negative. So I was able finally at that point to Jeff Greene from keepers of the well in California who I've been talking to often told me how to get ahold of Dr. Crook at Cornell University. And I called him up and I know he thought I was the crazy lady too because he'd never done any research and but he'd done tons of research on on cattle and so he said I need a bone did any bone samples get taken? And I said no. And he said well, that's the only way we're gonna get get to look at this with science science, so we took a bone in what you're seeing here is her cannon bone. And you can see how the bone was being added tube with the fluoride the floral appetite and it was taking over her bone marrow. Well, that's a major part of your immune system. He also took horizontal slices, microscopic slices Would you and you can see this in the first peer review manuscript in the journal fluoride, and it's all explained, explains how how she had what he called Mosaic bone how the bone would grow, and stop and grow and stop and how it was being filled with, with fluoride, this is the x ray. And it shows even better how the bone was, was thickening up. And, you know, this is where people are getting the idea that the doctors are that, you know, all your bone is really good and thick and everything well, they're looking at bad bone. It's, it's it's not quality bone, it's very brittle bone. And I think that though, I'm sure that's the cause of so many more pressure fractures and people breaking their hips and everything. So when he asked if there was it, he said, Well, if this has happened to this horse, he said, I know that there's going to be more so a friend of ours had a horse that had very similar symptoms to ours, a gelding, and they had put him down. And the amazing part was, it was three weeks later, the lady called me up and said, Well, we put Riley down, and they are of the opinion that they need to take him out to the forest and let the animals eat him in the circle of life. And she says, we're gonna go out and take a leg if there's anything left of him. Will you think Dr. Crook would take it? And he started to told me they would, he would. So I said, Yeah, so they went out there, nothing had touched this horse, which is just totally amazing that the coyotes and and the scavengers, and me bears even down to the crows had not touched this horse, they knew knew better. They knew like our horses didn't want to drink the water, they'd rather eat the snow. Anyway, we sent his leg and he came back with the diagnosis of chronic Florida poisoning. And then there was a third horse, also not mine, that had lived here for I'm thinking nine or 10 years, something like that. And

it it had chronic develop chronic back problems, and the people put it down, and we sent that way. And it's also came back with the same diagnosis. So then Dr. Craig said, Now the problem is finding a control. Because people buy and sell horses, they move them around, who knows what a horse is, you know, had to drink or eat all its life. And it came to he called me about two weeks later, and he said, we have our control. It was from the herd of horses that they had at Cornell that had been born there. It was an old thoroughbred horse. And so we had our control. The picture that you see here, the arrows that are showing this is something that for horse people, there's a an epidemic of laminitis and founder. And this mayor, you can see the arrows are pointing to the gap between the hoof wall and the coffin bone showing that this mayor had foundered. And Dr. Cruz brought up up the point that it could this be one of the causes, obviously, is not the whole cause. But the consumption of fluoride either working on as a systemic poison or directly on the Lamanites in the hoof, you know, what, what could be causing founder. So anyway, from there, this whole thing blew up into a whole lot bigger than saying that I ever, ever had thought.

Clint Griess 18:50 Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Kathy. So this is this is a story about how you found out that fluoride was causing some really visual visible effects and even killing your horses.

Kathy Justice 19:06 Yes. We eventually lost eight horses. We lost three more horses after fluoridation ceased. And so many people said, well, how come you're still losing horses? Well, one was the sorrow mare that you see in poison horses that was so crippled up. She had such a big heart and will to live that we didn't expect her to live for years, and she just kept on going. And then the other two were two that had they were second generation consuming flora. While they got it in utero because their dad was drinking it. During the time she was just dating him. The second one was more sick when she was born than the first one because she was nursing the first one. So she was consuming up to twice as much water to make milk for the first One, while she was just stating the second one, the second one died at age nine. The vet thought he had pneumonia, and had to rush him to Albuquerque because he needed his lungs tapped because they were filling up with fluid when we got him there. Within 15 minutes, they did an ultrasound and said we have to tap his lungs immediately because they're real full of fluid and he's not going to be able to breathe very long. They took two buckets of fresh blood out of his his lungs. And he died that night. They said that he's not going to make it. He died that night. And they were two surgeons and a pathologist that did the necropsy on him, and said that he had huge cancerous tumors in his lungs. One had eaten through an artery is where the blood was coming from, and his kidneys were also completely shut down. They were completely full of cancer. And we know that fluoride causes cancer. And we also know that the arsenic in the hydrofluorosilicic acid causes cancer. In fact, it's arsenic is well known for causing cancer of the lung, kidney, and bladder, and he had two of those cancers. And the other one died in 2010. And he had five Moabite, fibromyalgia and and skeletal problems, all kinds of different problems. But what he died of was a massive heart attack from the damage that fluoride had done to his heart.

Clint Griess 21:40 Wow. To his heart, his

Kathy Justice 21:43 heart. Yep. In fact, Dr. Wall bought in the book. Fluoride, the great dilemma, tells about one case of a baby that died that the parents had had consumed for dated water and the babies. I believe it was his arteries were hard from fluoride that he got in utero. Wow.

Clint Griess 22:14 Okay, so then, Kathy, what is there any news like in the last say, year that we can share with folks, things that may not be already documented on the videos of your story?

Kathy Justice 22:29 Um, well, all the horses that we have gotten since then have have been well haven't developed any of these problems at all, which is very telling that they were well before and well, after, you know, the ones that didn't consume the fluoridated water. There has, after the first peer reviewed manuscript came out, a lady called me from southern Texas, she lives it at the altitude of 18 feet down down, I think by Galveston, and she said that she had had horses that had symptoms that the vets couldn't figure out either. And so I put her in touch with Dr. Crook, and she sent bones to him and same diagnosis, chronic fluoride poisoning and her horses since she does a well, that had very, very low, naturally occurring fluoride. And her horses of the ones that were able to come out of it have gotten better. And then after that, in India, there was a researcher that did a peer reviewed manuscript is also in the journal fluoride on Donkey donkeys and horses that had chronic fluoride poisoning. Yes. Oh, go ahead. Dr. Craig told me that my horses are the first horses to ever be diagnosed with chronic fluoride poisoning from Florida they did water

Clint Griess 24:05 okay, yeah, well, we're gonna hear from Dr. Richard sour Hebrew in in a minute about some potential, you know, complicating factors including the calcium in the water, their calcium levels, but I want you to be able to share with everyone the difference you made in your local community to save your horses is there's no longer a scheme of water fluoridation in your area and it's because of the work you did.

Kathy Justice 24:35 Now. Well, I had been sending research material that I had pulled up gotten from the library or gotten out of the books that I got from my dad and sent to the water department and they totally ignored me. Absolutely. I was just the crazy blonde and so you know, whatever. Anyway for years and years and years and and when I got the the mica Up to a 17 page necropsy report from Dr. Kirk on Baby Doe, I sent him a letter and said, I'm not doing this anymore. You're gonna stop it. And right away, they they gave me a call and said, Please come and speak to the board. And they actually allowed me to speak for over an hour which surprised us. And then we went to a couple more board meetings. And then they said they were going to have a county wide forum to see what people thought and in the interim between the necropsy report and this forum, the forum. Well, we got the necropsy port report, I think in November and in March, march 8, I think was the forum. We started having, there were five of us, it was me, a dental hygienist. She was the one that own the second horse was that was diagnosed a nurse who else and a guy that was he kind of works in water related thing. There were five of us. And we started giving we I ordered all the the tape from the International Academy of oral medicine and toxicology that they had. And we started having little little seminars that we would give to anybody that wanted to come. And people started telling other people and and the word started spreading and people started doing their own due diligence and finding out and when we had this forum, people were educated they they had planned this, as usual this this forum on the same day as another big controversial thing on zoning that had been gone going on for months and and figuring that nobody would come to the forum and we overfilled the room. The other meeting, hardly had anybody. They had invited the state epidemiologist, the head of the Health Department, the state fluoride expert, and a local dentist on one side, and it was the mother of a boy that had fluorosis dental fluorosis that was born here and myself on the other side. And between while we gave our talk and showed the DVD of Dr. Hershey doing his Senate subcommittee, deal, and then the audience just chewed up the other side. I mean, chewed them up. And on March 30, they ceased water fluoridation, what the board said at that meeting, we didn't expect them, we figured we were going to continue fighting. And one of the board members stood up and he said, I am getting really, really tired of these people, because we were overfilling, filling their little conference room every time. I'm getting tired of these people being here. We can't run a good meeting. I think we need to vote tonight. And he said, I believe that we need to stop this. Because I believe people do have a choice. And then it went around the table. There were some several dumb comments. One of them said, Well, I think if we take it out that needs to be put in milk, which is a dumb comment. The last person said, Well, I was here on the board. When fluoridation started, I think it needs to continue. But I don't want to be the odd man out. So it was a unanimous vote. And basically, their vote was because they thought people had a choice. And I'm sure the reason they said that was because if they admitted that they had poisoned our horses, that they would be sued.

Clint Griess 28:47 Wonderful, so it was a combination of hard science from the necropsy reports together with expert testimony. And just plain perseverance,

Kathy Justice 28:57 sound perseverance, yep. And getting getting a grassroots movement going telling. There was an there still isn't a person I meet that I don't talk about fluoridation. You know, I have noticed when I was talking about fluoridation before, when it was my still my theory, people didn't want to hear but as soon as we had science that it was injuring my animals. People love their animals. They started listening.

Clint Griess 29:27 Yeah, so tell us a little bit about how you got people's attention. Or did you? Did you print flyers? Did you have meetings? Did you hold community events? How did you get people's attention?

Kathy Justice 29:37 Well, we did print flyers for our meetings and we only had two, three or four of these educational seminars. But we people were able to come and ask questions and and, you know, we were able to present hard science at these seminars and Think well through the horses, it really got to people's heart that that, you know, gets to their heart first, which opens up everything else and then they realize, okay, well if it's doing this to the horses, what's it doing to me? And we were able with the examples of the the illnesses that are horses manifested. These same ailments were rapid in this town. And so they could see it in other people too. And it got people's attention.

Clint Griess 30:34 Yeah. Okay, so we're gonna bring Dr. Richard sour Heever on the line. You've worked with him? Haven't you? Kathy before? Yeah, we're email buddies. Yeah, so why don't you go ahead and bring introduce him for us?

Kathy Justice 30:53 Well, Richard is is from Southern California. We I met him via the email through a friend that my husband and I graduated from high school with. And he has done some wonderful research on the racetracks out in California and what has happened to the amount of pressure fractures, which they call breakdowns, any any kind of thing like that on a racetrack they call a breakdown, and how they have increased since the fluoridation on these tracks started.

Clint Griess 31:30 Well, hello, Richard. Hi, can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Okay. Yeah, thanks, Kathy.

Richard Sauerheber 31:41 That was that was good. I want to point out I wanted to point out that a lot of people have asked me well, how come all horses around the whole country are not harmed as badly as Kathy's were, because most big cities now fluoridate the water well, a lot of horses drink well, water, but those that are on city water, you know, most of the water districts have, fortunately, a little bit of calcium that's in the water, as opposed to what was going on. If it goes in spring, it's because the springs was the worst city to pick on from fluoridation because the calcium levels are so low, and there was no protection at all. So that went all the ingested fluoride was basically assimilated into the blood. As calcium is the antidote to poor and poisoning, and you have water and soft is if it goes to the springs, that was that was why Kathy's horses were hurt so quickly and so badly. Other horses are being harmed, but not so, so quickly. The level of calcium, there's only five parts per million, I found that on the US Geological Survey Report. That's about the lowest I've seen in the whole country. So that's what happened. And you know, when I say horses, as well as people are being affected, even in water that has a lot of calcium, that that's true, because because of the nature of the fluoride out and because it is a chronic, toxic calcium key leaders what it really is. You have the other Oh, you have the flight up? Well, this is a drinking water that comes out of Yosemite for the city of San Francisco. And this is this is how you know normal, fresh drinking water is supposed to be you know, you can connect his water, there'll be no fluoride in it. And there'll be no sodium in it and there'll be no silicic acid in it. Is this regular clean drinking water and isn't that water supposed to be? You know, it's a gift from distillation of the ocean. This is how most people's water start, but it ends up being like on the next slide. In today's world, this is what happens to our water after it's treated by facilities. This is a picture of a Metropolitan Water District facility up north delivers our water here. Notice these tanks in the back those are the largest three storey hotels each tank. And those are just to hold the Drano to neutralize the Fusa was a gap that would otherwise destroy the water district's plumbing. And so there's a little tiny sign on the fence there I hung that sign there the day before they were going to open the fluoride valves into our town. And then it listed all the federal water laws that are going to be broken when you open the valve but of course I'm sure they got a good laugh at it and threw it away and started fluoridating the next day and there was a police armed policeman armed guard inside the facility. He didn't see me hanging the sign but he saw me stand up and he was staring me down wondering what I was doing there. I was on a public street. I knew that I'd be safe from this guy because the same chain link fence with barbed wire that kept me from going in, kept him from coming out to get me but he didn't like me being there. But anyway, that was a sad day because that whole area used to hiking and camping and now it's just taken over a vast area of land take over by the water district. And this is where they have their fluoridation put Silly. But the point is it does not violate all kinds of federal laws Safe Drinking Water Act, Water Pollution Control Act, the Clean Water Act, Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, people, these cities that toward eight are supposed to even have a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination Elimination System permit from the EPA, and they don't have it. But, you know, kind of like Kathy the only success I really had with any of these towns where I go petition the water districts and the city council with information to try to let them know we shouldn't be doing that the only success I've ever had is when it came down to the horse data. Not only Cathy's, but the racehorse stuff, because I'll show you the last slide is at the end of this, but all the cities that have been protected from being flooded and down here because of the horse. So indeed, Cathy's horses are not not killed in vain. Anyway, for it is not a normal component of the blood, it doesn't belong in the blood. It doesn't belong in water, as I mentioned, so it shouldn't even be in there. If it when it's present in that water naturally as calcium fluoride, it's less dangerous than the industrial fluoride that the act and, and when it is present, naturally, it's still a contaminant. That's what the dentist's since 1939 just didn't seem to get it was a contaminant of the water, it wasn't something that was good for you. Next slide, I have the periodic table where the flooring is listed,

considered the most electronegative element in the world. But that's only true when it's foreign. And when when the foreign reacts with any substance it touches it turns into fluoride and expands its volume tremendously to the fluoride ion is really large. It's about the size of a water molecule, which is relatively small, but it's larger than a fluorine atom, which is really small. And that's, that's why flooring is so electron withdrawing. And it's so dangerous. But my point of all this is just because fluorine is on the periodic table doesn't mean it belongs on our menu. But people seem to get so used to the idea that fluorine is in nature, so therefore it's not that bad. But but they just don't understand what's what's the truth of it is a lot of textbooks will actually say that fluorine is the most is the 13th voltage, most abundant element in the earth, but that there is no fluorine in all of nature, that were there it would react with whatever it touched to become fluoride. While oxidizing the other substance there is no such thing as 14 in nature. Now it exists as for AI, but it only exists as inside of an element fluoride itself is not an element. I mean, you know, it just it shouldn't be called I could call it a mineral, a mineral element. Because fluoride is only part of a mineral. Like there's a mineral called fluoride with a TD or forespar that contains fluoride in it, the fluoride is not a mineral. So there's a lot of false information that are in textbooks out there. Anything is eating fluoride all day long, doesn't even reduce teeth decay, it can't. Because when you ingest fluoride from the industrial treated water supplies, and the level found in your saliva is only point 02 parts per million on an average and that's 75,000 times lower of a concentration that's been what's found the toothpaste totally unable to influence dental caries. On the next slide I show what happens with the chemicals that are added into the water at the water at the water district plant where the for the pH is seven the AQ si F six oolitic acid reacts with with sodium hydroxide, which is Drano comes free fluoride ion for the most part plus sodium ion plus ballistic acid which is kh for FY oh four. The thing of it is this is only true for when the water leaves the water is what really is important is what happens after you ingest it. You eat it. The trouble is our the pH of our stomach is so low it's like the pH to the three that all the fluoride ion becomes protonated into hf 100 boric acid and lauric acid is a very corrosive acid it can dissolve concrete and glass. But at low level, most people don't feel it maybe 7% Of all people can sense that they're drinking fluoridated water by the feelings in their stomach. But the deal about HF is is that HF is really permeable through the cell membrane lipid. So this is this is a mechanism by which fluoride gains entry into the bloodstream after he suggests.

Unknown Speaker 39:33 So after it

Richard Sauerheber 39:35 gets a simulated of the blood where the blood is alkaline again then it reorganizes back to fluoride. So the typical level of fluoride in the blood of a person drinking one PPM fluoride water is about point two parts per million. But the trouble of systemic fluoride is that it's a pathologic content system situated because it's the contaminant for it, as I said doesn't belong in in human blood. There's no listing in any medical journal For a requirement for fluoride in the blood, but because it's there, you know, about half of it is eliminated by the kidneys. The other half is 95% of that remains in the bone. And it's pretty much in there, biochemically irreversibly for the rest of your life.

Clint Griess 40:20 On the next level to underscore that, Richard, you're saying that when we ingest hydrofluorosilicic acid, half of it gets removed, if we have healthy kidneys to do that the other bulk of the remainder gets absorbed into our bones and remains there for life.

Richard Sauerheber 40:42 Yeah, because the parathyroid. Yeah, the parathyroid hormone that's normally there to mobilize and reserve calcium from bone to have turnover of bone and to maintain the blood calcium levels to protect, protect your heart. The parathyroid hormone doesn't work on floral appetite, when the fluoride is in the bone. You know, the parathyroid hormone doesn't recognize it. So what happens is the the incorporation of fluoride in the bone is an insult to the bone and pathologic situation occurs even when you don't sense anything you don't know anything is happening to you. When when your blood levels point to both, both hormones that regulate the bone and opposite, For opposite reasons become elevated, parathyroid hormone goes up, because it senses that it needs more resources, more calcium because the bone is being attacked. But calcitonin also goes up. Because there's, there's more and more more appetite present. And the body's trying to build up more bone. And that's what calcitonin is job is, but not You're not supposed to both the up at the same time. But in the case of fluoride poisoning, you know, fluoride in the blood, they do both go up at the same time and you start building abnormal bone, because you're less able to reserve the normal bone that was there and gradually, like on this graph here, you can see what happens over the years. This was this was done in England, and this is only natural calcium fluoride, it was in the water. At point eight ppm, the lower one and 1.9 ppm in the water, the blue one, over the lifetime of an indica of people who you know, as you can see, 67 years old, they're getting up to where the bone level of fluoride was. Some of these people headed above 3000. And according to the NRC report above 3000 milligrams per kilogram in the bone when it finally gets up to that level, then your bones break easier when you have a stress stress placed off. So even back then without Florida toothpaste, and this is not industrial fluoridated water, this is natural calcium fluoride water that had kept the minutes for some protection. And you were still seeing numbers like this. And the dentists really didn't care about any of this. They just figured because fluoride is great and must be helping the bones they actually believe that for a long time, but the FDA does prove that very clearly with studies and that they support it at the NIH for it does not strengthen. So today because we have Florida toothpaste, and we have industrial flurry water, and you'd like Infosys continue to Florida the water because it's springs I mean people, people in the bone level for I would have been astronomical if you live there your whole life drinking, drinking something like that. So this is a picture the next one is a picture of what does happen when you drink a four parts per million fluoride for your whole life, you can actually get bone levels that are astronomical and this is what a rhotic bone looks like from a person who does not died of bone for us. This is a these are human leg bones, the tibia and the fibula. So the normal bone on the top is nice and nice and smooth like it's supposed to be but the same bones from the same size type of person with bone for office, it was really severe. This is probably 12,000 milligrams per kilogram here in the bone to this person that when you get to that kind of level, you can't even walk because he see all these stick eels sticking out the sides of the bone you all the muscle tissue and nerve tissue and everything all along there. When you try to move it we just scrape the tissue. This person was just immobile. And before he passed away from the bone fluorosis. So the point of this slide isn't that this could happen in industrial fluoridated cities today, because most of these will have to have calcium in there at least maybe 50 parts per million average. That would tend to minimize this. But but the point is that all before it does go into your blood. That point two parts per million is enough to cause after say, lifetime or drinking it to get up in the four to 5000 parts per million range, which is about a third of the way here, as you see here. And that's that kind of level you're getting up to where you can have symptoms of arthritis, bone pain, from all the flooring that's accumulated in the bone. So at 3000 the bone has weakened. Five or 6000 the bone bone pain is present and then at 12,000 You can't even walk So it's just a matter of how much you get from all different sources at once. And for how long, what the final outcome really is going to be that every swallow that you take is just another another portion bought on your bone to become floral appetite instead of normal Hydroxyapatite. And it's just, you're on this on this road heading towards, towards, towards as long as he detects and Notice also how wide the bone is, before letting go in. And that's because of all the calcitonin it was trying to help this person out by building more bone. But it's always abnormal bone

and kind of composition than normal. But anyway, getting back to the horses, it was because of Kathy's

observations in Infosys springs that I was becoming familiar with. But I decided, well, wait a minute, I know that LA is going to start flirting in 2007. So right before that, I started examining all the resource breakdown. There were so carefully kept track of by the State of California here in Los Angeles, because I wanted to see if Florida Water was going to affect that or not, as you can see from this graph, la began before it in 2007. And it was right after that, that the incidence of resource breakdown that required euthanizing the animals increased three and a half fold. You'll see in 2011, there's a little downtick in the in the incidents, and that was, at the time when health and human services requested that water fluoride levels not exceed point seven. So LA, who had been voted in one PPM the whole time, they decided to lower 2.7 Finally, and then there was a downtick in the deaths, it's almost like the breakdown incidents, paralleled before I level in the water, even better than the water district can measure. And this is not a small study, you know, and it was perspective, because I'm looking at the horses and all the data in the horse 10 years before fluoridation started, and then during and years after. And so a lot better than just a simple after the fact anecdotal observation. And, and, moreover, this, this represent this graph here is Los Alamitos, which has a lot of races and a lot of racing days per year, you're talking about 170,000 Racing starts right here that are represented in a photograph. It's not a small little time study. And then the same type of graph, I didn't put that one on here, because it almost looks like a mirror image of this one. The same type of graph happened at Hollywood Park for 40,000 races that I looked at, in there for as long as they've kept their records from 2008 to 2013, before and after, shows the same threefold tripling of the deaths, and then a downtick in 2011. So what has happened, because of all this, I went ahead and wrote up a paper about on this because the doctor, first caller asked me to he's seen that he was the senior editor of fluoride. Before he passed away, passed away this year, he was able to get a hold of me and work with me on this for about a year. But he asked me to do this, so I did it. And what has happened is this particle has kind of gotten around in the racing industry all of a sudden, and one thing that happened was Hollywood Park closed down. Because the basically nobody wanted to go see the horses get killed. too depressing. Then, even though 99% Of all the racing starts were successful, that that 1% instead of what it used to be, like, you know, maybe point 2.3% It was just too much to tolerate. And so Hollywood Park is now closed down is no longer exists. They lost their entire racetrack, it's going to be a shopping center. They've they've got the graves of some of the famous horses that have raced there, and they're really bearing these horses elsewhere. It's really sad. That thing to see, Los Alamitos fortunately, they got wind of what was going on. And largely that's because one of my students on my chemistry students happens to be a breeder. His family has been in the horse breeding industry for a long time and they raised horses that go to Los Alamitos. He took the article his dad read it who owns the horse breeding company next thing I know all this stuff and all over the place this information is spreading everywhere one horse owners and what happened is both El Nino stopped buying water from LA because they're part of Golden State Water but the Golden State Water decided to stop buying Metropolitan Water District water that's fluoridated and they're using their own well water for the city now. So pretty much this experiment is now over because Hollywood Park is now shut down and those El Nino uses well water now instead of the city water. So it was just, you know, a good thing I looked at this one I did And then the next slide is a picture of Zenyatta. She's a famous horse from California. She was raised on regular water. But then her first racing season is when fluoridation started. And she had a great career in 19 when she lost her 23. But

it just shows that I'm just trying to keep it in perspective that most horses can still have a reasonable race, horsing career, even with the fluoridated water, but it depends on the care. It's the same differences in the horses. And because the springs versus the horses downriver in like Shiprock, where you wouldn't be seeing that kind of effect that Cathy's horses that is the river picks up all kinds of calcium on there. So here in LA, they had about 50 parts per million calcium, and it helped. But But then what happened for the for all the horse breakdown, that Los Alamitos and all the park and the thing was going on is the the horses are kept in stable year around that Los Alamitos. And they're never allowed to go to pasture. So when you drink water, and you're only fed occasionally, on a human schedule, and then with the horse one, what happens is, is the all the HF in their stomach, and the floor goes into their bones more. Because when you eat when you when horses have free access to to food and pasture grazing at the same time drinking will then miss the Florida simulation because all the calcium in the feed and everything else. And usually, veterinarians recommend that horses have a or food right there with them when they're drinking water anyway, the healthiest way to hydrate a horse. But in the stables, Wilhelmina suggested just wasn't permitted. It wasn't. It wasn't the way it was set up. And I think that's what happened to the racehorse. All depends on conditions. I have some extra data in there. But you know, again, emphasizing the conditions I mean salmon in the ocean, obviously, you're not harmed by the ocean water even though all the world's oceans have one part per million Florida. But that's because the ocean contains like 1000 parts per million calcium. But as soon as salmon tried to navigate up river and like what happened in the Columbia River in the 70s, where the Aluminum Company was dumping fluoride into the river, where there's no calcium in the water, it was only point three parts per million and the salmon got all marketized they couldn't even find their way upstream. And so that was shut down within a year and the salmon return back to the river again when the fluoride just take it out of it. So again, it depends on conditions, you know, fluoride toxic. I wanted to leave on an up note on this on this last slide where I show that even though most of all Southern California is now dealing with this fluoridated water issue from north of La all the way pretty much down to the Mexico border. We have a whole segment of people that will not receive Florida Water. And it's only because the biggest Cathy's horses in the race horse data and all this because when I when I took took the race horse article down to just have a water district look at it. And they said well, two executives came out and told me that they are not going to fluoridate the water there. And that includes there and the Fairbanks ranch began because most of their customers have horses and that's that's the largest horse population in the county, Rancho Santa Fe and Pyramex ranch. They're not interested in fluoridated water. So I told them well keep this paper on file in case the people who push it come around here and try to convince you otherwise, just showing this graph. They said definitely we will keep it and then Encinitas nearby on this map. They that city council had decided to fluoridate the water and they put it on their website that fluoride was coming it'd be great for your teeth all the usual nonsense, but Anthony This is not allowed will not be able to afford it because because they share the same water treatment plant that ranch is gonna pay ahead. So that means that Fairbanks ranch ranch or Santa Fe a lot of beach Cardiff, holdings are needed and the KT will not be fluoridated. And they'll join Poway which is our priority because they have their own filtration plant. They buy raw water from LA and also old Oceanside, and then Camp Pendleton on the top of the screen there. Those are all the regions that will not have fluoridated water pretty much indefinitely. They have no interest in coordinating their water and I'm really happy about that I had terrible luck with when I when I do deal with the topic being horses. If I went down Diego to deal with the mayor down there, he had me meet with his public utilities director because I'd been sending him all kinds of information for a long time before San Diego was going to Florida it was going to Florida so he sent me down there to talk to the public utility director and I met with him for an hour and I brought information from seven different textbooks all summarized. And I had showed them were floored when in all the body compartments what it does to burn mean, blood, bone, by road, all this stuff, which references data, everything. So after the end of the year, he said, end of this hour, he said, Well, when I flooded the water, I'm not going to drink it.

And so that was the only success I had with that one individual. And then a couple of months later, he just resigned, basically, because I don't think he wanted to be responsible for Florida eating all San Diego. And he took a job somewhere else and East County, and then his replacement is worse than him. And I wasn't granted permission to meet with that person. And so it was a complete failure. And anybody who was 40 did No. No. So when you're talking about horses, everybody seems to become more interested and more sympathetic, like Kathy says, open up their heart they don't want I mean, horses are innocent animals and that you they have to live with what you give them. And you're making decisions for them when you when you when you own animal. So it just seems heartless, you know, to give them fluoridated water when they don't even have an animal on their outer surface of the teeth. There's no benefit whatsoever for fluoridating, or whole body for an agent is a waste anyway, and harmful.

Clint Griess 56:11 But all right, thank you so much, Richard, for your report. Yes, I

want to let everyone know that these slides and all the photographs you've been seeing will be made available tomorrow for you to download together with an audio recording of this teleconference. So you can listen to it again, or share it with your friends. And we'll have also have contact information for our presenters in case you have a follow up questions for them. I'm gonna take a little time now to do some housekeeping for the teleconference itself. This is a monthly teleconference. And it does have some costs involved with it for the teleconference service itself, the email distribution as well as the file sharing service, a total of $150 a month and we've been able to keep going based on the contributions of folks who participate here. And I think I want to make a Special thanks today to Dr. Jim Maxie, who has generously supported the this teleconference for two months in the past. And we have for lucky we'll have plenty of months into in the in the future, until this menace of water fluoridation is finally ended. So I'm going to invite you all now to consider a donation. And if you'd like to donate, now would be a time to raise your hand. And I will then contact you after the teleconference to follow up with you to let you know about how to make a payment. So if there's anyone who'd like to declare your desire to make a contribution, please raise your hand by pressing the one on your keypad. Now. It's very important that these teleconferences be self sustaining, it's really it's a way of measuring that that the content of the teleconference is valuable, that it is something that is that works for you that it does serve you in your local campaigns. It's actionable information, that it provides inspiration. And a lot of people also do appreciate that we can all be together considering that we're all working separately in our in our distinct communities out there, it's great to be able to come together once a month as well. So let's see all the Mara, I thank you for raising your hand. I will follow up with you, Linda, as well. Thank you very much. Marilyn Haines from Queensland. Thank you very much. I will be I'll be sending you an email with with instructions on how to make a Payment and any amount is, is appreciated.

So thank you all again. That now I'd like to have a conversation with you all.

about an upcoming teleconference originally had planned for today to be a teleconference dedicated to to a panel of elected officials who have publicly taken a stand against fluoridation. Our heroes, if you will, those folks who have who are city councils or water boards around who have taken a stand and clear stand against fluoridation. We as advocates need to learn what it's like. For them. We need To understand what our elected officials are thinking, what are their various considerations? What are their priorities, so that when we go to speak with them, we're more effective. So what I envision is a teleconference where we bring together as many as five to 10. Politicians, policymakers, who are clearly opposed to water fluoridation, and let them teach us about their world. The thing is, it's, it's going to take a little bit more effort to get these folks on the line. You see the teleconferences in the past have been with wonderful leaders like the folks you're hearing from today, who are very glad to show up and present. These politicians, on the other hand, may have a variety of other considerations. And so it's going to take a little bit more effort to get a hold of them and to get them to commit to being here. So the next teleconference is June 14, a Saturday or down under June 15. And I'd like to ask you all now if there's anyone who out there would like to take up the cars and help me book these people for our next teleconference. I've gotten some emails with some suggestions from a variety of people, and I very much appreciate that. But because of the nature of the work involved, I'm asking that not only do you find out this folks, but actually contact them and take those extra steps to get them booked and confirmed for the next teleconference. So by raising your hand by pressing one on your keypad, would you please indicate that you would do the footwork to get a hold of an elected official, and clear them for the teleconference and have them be there. Just go ahead and raise your hand by pressing one on your keypad. Now, let's see if I can get some help. Sharon, Lorraine, thank you. Is there anyone else? Anyone else? Because it's only going to be possible if in this case, if we if we get some community support here in this effort?

Dr. Paul Connett 1:02:22 Okay. Well,

Clint Griess 1:02:27 maybe I should just ask if, if you all think that would be a useful program. Imagine, say five to 10 city councilors or waterboard members from Oh, any place really? Who have taken a stand against fluoride and can tell you what it's like when fluoride free activist comes to them and tells them to stop fluoridating what, what are they thinking? What what are their concerns? And how better can we approach them? If you think that that'd be a valuable program, please press one on your keypad now. Okay, well, looks like only 25% of you would find that valuable. Okay, that's, that's good feedback. Thank you very much for everyone for chiming in. When we open up for q&a, maybe as we go through q&a, if you have a suggestion for a future topic that you think would be valuable, appreciate hearing from you. And also, if you want to send me an email by replying to any of the invitations you've received, just send me an email with content with ideas we have for content for future teleconferences that you think would be most valuable, and most needed for what you're up to today. All right, let's get back into our conversation about the effects of fluoridation on horses. I'd like to introduce a veterinarian. Dr. Larry Kelly, is on the line with us say thank you very much for being with us. Let me say hello. Hello, how are you doing? Well, I'm doing good. Thank you very much. You have after talking with you, I've learned so much about the actual chemical analysis, the hard data that you've you've achieved. So I'd like you to share about that today. And anything else you think is relevant to our listeners.

Larry Kelly 1:04:34 Be more than happy to I think I sent you some information. There was four items. One of them is about Dr. Brusilov in Brazil, the test fingernails.

Clint Griess 1:04:50 Yeah, so I'll get those photos up one second.

Larry Kelly 1:04:53 And then they're UVI is in horses. We can name telephone

Clint Griess 1:05:00 connections. It's a little fuzzy. Is there a way you can clean? clear it up a little bit? Maybe? How's that? Well, speaking into the microphone is helpful. Go ahead to keep talking. No, that's actually that's actually worse worse. Okay. Well, just go ahead. I think we'll have to work with it for now.

Larry Kelly 1:05:49 Do you want me to call in on another phone?

Clint Griess 1:05:52 No, whatever's happening right now is great. Keep going.

Larry Kelly 1:05:55 Okay. All right. Where is this information? When, when everybody has some free time to look into some of the information that's out there, we all know about the pineal gland and how it sets up the fluoride. And there's some studies where, when the pineal gland is inflamed, the horses have UV itis, you read that? Wholesale, I told you the excellent book that I like is cause Rohan 1937, Florrie intoxication. I think that's a great article. And if you want to put up the slide for the A V L, D. E, says presentation. And basically, what I am is I refer myself much like a person who has gold fever, I kind of have fluoride fever, and being raised up in the mountains in Colorado, we would go out there and look for gold and all those other things. But the primary thing was, whatever, whatever samples we had, they had to go to the Assay Office, because the Assay Office told us, the lead, zinc, silver, the gold, whatever is in that in that rock. And one of the things I want to say is that the laboratories, and the laboratory data that we collect is probably the most important, most powerful tool that we can have. And when I'm trying to help people and animals, and I, you know, I keep going back to what is the data, you know, I know, we all have complaints of what's going on, but to me, unless you have data in front of you, you're not going to help solve the problem. And you're certainly not going to win when people come up to say it was a problem, if you hand them this data sheet. It's extremely important. So I use the laboratory exclusively my primary goal, because I have gone down into Mexico and other places like that. And I've seen down lesions and I'm trying to figure out what it is come back into the United States here and I'm doing the same basically. And I would like to establish anti mortem tests. Because when I come up to an animal, and I suspect that animal has whatever disease we is, is educated people we were we're allowing people to or allowing us to run tests can test by test etc. But they want to see the results. And right now it's extremely difficult for me to go to a horse and do an anti mortem test and I always say people like and I'm pretty sure your horses fluorosis, but I have to wait until he dies. And that's really not an acceptable payment in cattle is totally different. I do have a Ansem origin test that can run on horned cattle because of the bone that's inside the horn calf in the horn take a look into the tip of the horn off of a cow take the horn cap off and there's a piece of bone and that piece of bone can be sent into the laboratory and the amount of fluoride can be detected in that bone. It may not be specific enough because the bone may be that new bone may be a mixture of old and new bone but at least you can go in there and do an inventory but back to the the AVL the this started because there's a ranch out in in Southern California in the high desert that has a worldwide 15 parts per million. And when I went through and in the animals I do economy dentistry that's my my anyway and examine the cattle and also the cattle we're showing clinical signs of dental fluorosis, the reason why all the categories because these animals were raised there as young animals and so while they were in utero, a lot of the fluoride affected the enamel and then as the adult teeth came in, so if you go to the picture that shows the called dental cirrhosis and beef and it will show you two, two photographs side by side. And the photograph on the right side, the central incisors. If you looked at the incisors, the very top of the incisors are a light white coloring, whereas the other, the bottom half of the incisors that go close to the gun, they are a yellowish and so if you read on the article, what happened was this animal was purchased outside of the ranch brought to the ranch when it was a yearling exposed to 15 parts per million water plus other fluoride supplements and feed. And so the teeth were developing while this animal was under a high level of fluoride picked up and you can see the bottom half of the tooth where it was under under fluorosis is changed and then the adjacent teeth on both sides are all showing signs of cirrhosis. This photograph on the left side shows a bull is also about four years old.

has typical signs of dental fluorosis. Now, when I go out to to look at a ranch or someplace the most important thing, before I before I go any deeper, I look for lesions that are symmetrical. And when I when I say symmetrical, what I mean is if you look at the picture of the bull, you'll see that the central incisors are fairly damaged. The incisors on the other side of the central incisors show this typical pattern of enamel distortion. And so both both of those states that are affected, so you have a cemetery of lesions. And most important thing to think about is and people started arguing me because they think that because the lesions are symmetrical, they have to be identical. And there's a huge difference between symmetry and being identical. So, if you look back at the picture of the beef cow, the central incisors are both those incisors are being affected simultaneously. So that is a symmetrical lesion. Now do the to the teeth look totally identical, not really. But you see that they are being affected simultaneously. The teeth on the neck side of those the intermediate incisors, again, are being affected. So those are signs of symmetry. And so when the three Ruffini after they've been exposed to fly in GM, as it come up, you will start seeing problems because of exposure. Now in one of the things I sent you, Dr. Crook, and others have have a thing called expressions of fluorosis. And so when you sit down and you read the five different expressions of fluorosis look at the the teeth that you think are affected in an animal and then different, the fluorosis and those things. And this is how I started evaluating the teeth, I would take pictures of the teeth. And then I've used the five expressions of fluorosis to see if they fit. And then I decided that I needed to prove I need to have data to show that these animals did have fluorosis. And so what I did is I selected two horses. One horse had a tumor on the job, the other horse was crippled. And that picture is I think it's like the fourth or fifth one there chose a horse called chief and it shows his legs lightly. And then it shows the upper and lower jaw. Okay, that went up. Okay, so, as soon as you look at this horse, you'll see that this horse has what it has bilateral carpetas. So both knees are affected. So it's a symmetrical problem, but definitely they're not identical. Horses left knee is a little bit larger than the right knee, but this animal is suffering from bilateral symmetrical lameness. And if you look at some of the data from India, what are people suffering from they they suffer from the knee problems. The interesting thing about the ranch where this this These horses are kept both the owners are one of the owners gone surfing and the second his wife is is is getting ready to go in. So these folks have been drinking this well water knowing how much it was worth. So, what I did is I took the Animals I sent them in, and we took specific parts of the animal. And I think that chart is on earth with a bunch of numbers on it.

Clint Griess 1:15:19 Is it a factory free F analysis of SELECTED BONES? Yes, yes.

Larry Kelly 1:15:24 And what what that that that shows you is a is the, you found it? Oh, here we go. I got it. So the factory analysis of selectable now, let me tell you something about when we're doing testing, because this gets very confusing. And it took me a while to figure this out. If I throw numbers out to you, and let's say that Clint source, he calls me up and he says my horse had 1000 parts per million tail. And I'm asking to ask people is don't add words, it's that free. And the difference is that when the tests are reported in parts, in fact, Florida, they are third, San, less than the same. Lesson parts from bonus share, or new ad, no visitor, we have to make sure we use that format, or is it bonus and the reason for that is that for example, if I report something at 900 parts per million fat free fluoride, I have to divide that by three and add another 300 show if I was going to say in bone ash, it would be approximately 1200 parts per million in bonus. So in some of it, and some of the reporters have not met this distinguished who he was reporting on a hash every makes a huge difference, especially when you get into higher numbers. So what I collected was I collected incisor tooth from from the horses, I collected the size of the tooth from the the cows, the tail I collected about two inches of tailbone. Click to the section of the rib, the humerus. And the third phalanx third failing to us is like the end of your finger, the little bone that's underneath your fingernail. And then after this was all tested, I became curious about the corneal process. And that is when you you go into the bar and you see the cow hanging over the bar. You see the big horns hanging up there. That's the corneal process. And those are actually the extension of the skeleton of the head and it is bone. So we pull the horn cap off the Horn cap is that little, little thing that the Davy Crockett used to put his gunpowder in. So once you pull that off, you'll see a white bony tissue, you cut a piece of that off and send that in. And you'll notice in the cows, that one was six 6800 parts per million, and the other one was 9500 parts per million. So right now this if you have a horn cow, that you're suspicious that these animals have been exposed to throat, right, then we're able to go in there and cut a little piece of horn or we can go in there with the drill and taking concrete drill the bone tissue and and this is one of the only anti mortem tests that I have right now. My other idea was to go in and do do like they're doing fingernails and people I wanted to do hoof walls. And also the back to the Davy Crockett thing, the little horn there that he put his gunpowder in that say horn tissue very similar to our fingernail. And so I was going to get samples off foreign caps

off of every every cow that we butchered every every horse and all that. And unfortunately, when I sent into the lab, when they were trying to ash the samples they blew up in the laboratory. So at the present time I don't have a methodology of testing these and and this testing the ball of an animal that you're suspecting that has fluorosis would be just an believable advantage in in medicine. They do it in people. The difference in people is they cut the into your finger you know your fingernail grows out, they cut the end. So if you could imagine when in the animal we can go right up to where your cuticle is. And we can take a little draw knife and we can take a sliver of hoof wall from the hairline. came all the way down. So we'll have, we can we can do I theorize anyway we can, we can be able to see, you know, when that animal proximately was exposed to high levels of fluoride, and, and is it in the system at the present time. So, that's my dream. And this is one of the tests that I like to do and get done now, after I after I tested and we reported this, the horses that were on in cattle that run on high fluoride, you'll also notice that there's a couple of pictures in there, where I also collected samples from a five hour calf. This calf died in temperatures like 120 degrees out in the desert, and his calf got pushed out underneath the fence. And they didn't see it die, he was only five hours old, did not suck, it did not drink water. So I went out there drove out there and grabbed the carcass and and hit the tailbone. On this calf was 310 parts per million, showing that the fluoride definitely pass through the placenta. And, and I have done two other calves. And both of both of these calves. One was an abortion. And there's been a flight test itself. So there is fluoride passing through. And that brings up an interesting question because most of the studies that are done on on fluorosis, not too many studies have been on what they call generational studies, and that is where an animal lives within the compound of exposure. And then they turn around and they have their bread and their their baby, you know is exposed in utero. And then when it comes out of utero, then it's starts all over again. So this, this ranch's is just like it's like setting up a laboratory for 25 years and just leaving it go by itself. And that's why in the last two years, I've been able to go in there and find out all this information at a rapid rate because everything has been Mother Nature's done all the work for me and I just come in and reap the benefits and put my name on things and start publishing. So my project right now is I have 12 horses. Seven of these seven of these horses came out of the high desert area five of these horses out the rendering of Southern California and what I've done with the first seven horses is I collect half their tail and the last two inches is sent in for fluoride analysis. The other third the tail is put in a compost pile and the in the proximal portion of the tail is put in formaldehyde and formaldehyde is for histopathology if we can find somebody get some money generated to do histopathology the rib is treated in the same way it's it's cut in thirds 1/3 A formula and 1/3 into the compost and 1/3 is sent in for fluoride.

Now I go to the muzzle. The muzzle is the just the incisors and the incisors are collected the upper and lower incisors. Now in cows, cows only have lower incisors, they do not have any upper incisors. So the process is a little bit different in cattle. But in horses I clicked upper incisors, lower incisors, very similar to the picture of the horse with the baseball knees. You'll see a photograph there on the right side of the upper incisor called the maxilla. And the lower incisors called the mandible. So I take a saw and I cut it the way visual visualize this is grandpa hand you his dentures, his upper and lower denture. So you take the dentures, and you cut them in half so that half of his teeth are on one side of your cut and the other half of his effort teeter on the other side. So if you do that for the uppers and lowers, so then I take the left portion of the upper and lower and I put that in the compost pile, I take the right section of the upper and lower and that's put in into formaldehyde. And then after all the composition is done when I compost all these, these tissues, then I start from scratch. I start with case number one. I take the tail out of the formaldehyde. I put the composted tail pieces next to that almost like a like a ponytail, and I line up all my seven cases And then I photograph it. And then I then I read the graphic. And my hopes is that that somewhere we'll find a radiologist that might be able to, to discover some changes in the in the tail vertebrae or the coccyx vertebrae of animals of our horses and cows because anything that has a tail, again, I'm looking for an anti mortem test that I don't have to kill an animal to diagnose fluorosis. So if we can find lesions in the tail that are synonymous or or Athan demonic of cirrhosis, then we can do this on live animals. So I radiograph the tail, I ready, I set the ribs up a radiograph the ribs also then I go to the to the jaws, I pull the the upper jaw portion out of the formaldehyde, I take the composted jaw, and I put those together with a rubber band do with the upper and the lower. And then I photograph these in a radiograph them. And then finally I pulled the teeth out of the composted portion of the jaw. And I lay the teeth alongside the upper jaw and the lower jaw. And then that is radiograph. And the reason for that is when you pull the teeth out of the jaw, then you can see the fine changes there in the sockets where the teeth are sitting. And the the hierarchy of bone loss says that the alveolar sockets are the two sockets lose bone, they are they are the first area to lose bone in the body. And so this is what I'm looking at. And this is what I'm trying to prove with my with my with my my testing here. And then after. After the job's done, then I then the one of the one of the jobs that has the teeth already extracted from it. And I submit that half of the jaw up to UC Davis, the toxicology lab with the doctor popping gate, and that is destined for fluoride. So that's the process that I use and show. And I feel very comfortable with our results because I send the tails in first. And I wait until the the tail tests come back. Then I send in the ribs and wait to the rib test come back. And then I come in and I send in the jaws. And then if I have a few extra dollars in my pocket, and I can also send in one or two incisors so so you can you can see the the the quantity and most of the time. If you look at some of the charts, those those levels are are you know sometimes are awfully close to one another and there's not a lot of deviation so

you can go into an area like a ranch I saw the thing about the kangaroo you know if there's a dead kangaroo out there you go out there and because of the because of the animal that they like and horses and cattle are swishing their tail and and there seems to be you know, that's why these bones seem to pick up the fluoride and go to the kangaroo you can do the same thing you know, I've done it, I've done it on dogs. I've done it on cows and horses. And so if if you're asking for help, what should we do go out and find some bones. Get the tailbone if you can have it tested and then if you find that that is elevated and you have reason to go in there and start collecting more bone now if you can collect in more than the tail bones and that's great, the more bones you have, but but I was able to go into this ranch go to their boneyard it's been sitting there for like 20 years and within three weeks I had enough samples and I had tested enough that I knew that that I was hitting the jackpot with these animals people with horses tend to bury them but you know the cattle and the sheep and the goats and all that a lot of people out there to rot so so that's the that's the process that I do. I wasn't okay with in and I'll just fill out one other thing. The in Southern California we see a lot of deadly lesions until I started testing Hey sample and I have I have eight samples that go all the way up to 180 parts per million. I have Hey from from the Netherlands it's 48 parts per million. I have teeth from in different bones in there and there's also analyst and the other thing I was in for a fertilizers that 15,000 parts per million So the thing the reason why I call myself a with fluoride favor and gold fever, I think we have to be extremely careful just not be looking in the water for the gold nuggets, because you know this this fluoride is creeped on and it's all over the place.

Clint Griess 1:30:16 Thank you. Yes, yes. It was surprising to me to hear from you that the hay that they eat has enormous amounts of fluoride from supposedly natural fertilizer, which is this unprocessed phosphate that contains the fluorine in its unprocessed. So that's, and of course, the the pharmaceuticals that they take. So thank you for those. Those comments, we're going to quickly go to question and answer, we can try to get as many as we can before the top of the hour. So if you have a question for any of our presenters, please raise your hand by pressing one. And we'll start with Dr. Paul Connett. Go ahead, Paul.

Dr. Paul Connett 1:30:53 Hi, fascinating. All three of you. Bearing in mind what Richard was saying in terms of how fluoride strikes highest? When calcium is lowest. I notice in your charts, you're you're recording the fluoride in the water. Could you also record the calcium and magnesium in the water?

Larry Kelly 1:31:17 Yes, the calcium was 31. And what was the other one you wanted?

Dr. Paul Connett 1:31:22 Magnesium,

Larry Kelly 1:31:24 and the magnesium was 2.87.

Dr. Paul Connett 1:31:28 Magnesium is low, then. Yeah. So it'd be interesting when you're okay. So that that chart is be interesting to see if you get a situation where you've got lower fluoride levels, having an effect, but also in combination with very low calcium, as appears to have been the case with Kathy justices, horses.

Clint Griess 1:31:55 Wonderful, thank you very much, Paul. Thank you. Great to hear your voice on the line. So we have got a question from Doug in Los Angeles. Go ahead, Doug.

Doug 1:32:06 Yeah, this is for Professor sour ever. I would like to hear him I think it'd be good for everybody to hear him talk about zoo animals and animals and animal preserves things like these animals preserved prefer to drink the non fluoridated water and what's happened with rare exotic crocodiles and, and those kinds of things. He's, he's also worked with those other animals as well. I'd like to hear about that.

Clint Griess 1:32:34 Okay, one sec. Richard, go ahead. Well,

Richard Sauerheber 1:32:41 the main thing, main animals that I looked at down here because you know, we have the San Diego Zoo and the Wild Animal Park, I was most concerned about the elephants and in the Gharial, crocodile. And sure enough, when fluoridation started in Escondido in 2005, it wasn't long after that, that the animal shows that were really famous and really expert elephant shows where the elephants could do all these tricks. Next thing you know, they couldn't do the tricks anymore. They weren't able to follow orders, and they were actually attacking their trainers or becoming aggressive. And they had to cancel the shows, never to be returned again. And I found out from the Wildlife Park, that it was opposite of what I was thinking because they thought they were getting regular water that was not fluoridated from a different city because that's where they pay their water bill. But I went over there because of the effects that what happened to the elephants and I was really pretty certain that they were getting fluoridated water. And sure enough, it was correct. I checked the water level and the fluoride was obviously industrial fluoridated water from Escondido because they were right sample, Squall doesn't get 40 water but Escondido was a closer pipe and they've tapped off for that park from Escondido. And so when they heard that they were not really happy his while part didn't want fluoridated water. So now the whole park has been reconfigured slowly so to where the elephants now we're just drinking the lagoon water from San Francisco. And the other odd thing I noticed over there was at the time, they had trust for the draft that the drafts were kind of like Kathy justice his horses, they wouldn't drink the water out of the truck. It would go down and drink out of the lagoon, which is the sample squirrel, non fluoridated water they're using for landscaping, the draft would walk down there bend down and get the water there. And so I've noticed though that because I tried to help out and tell them what I thought was going on, things have changed over there and most of the animals now get to Sanford Squall water. And the only people the only thing the only thing they use the Florida Water for now just in the drinking fountains for the people. And then the other incident was the Gharial alligators down at the zoo. When I went down there I took pictures of the gharials Knowing that fluoridated water was coming, and they were sitting there on the bank, luckily and I was able to photograph their teeth and their eyeballs and everything for control photographs, and I was gonna go back a few months later after, after the city began to fluoridate the water to see what may be happening to them. Because the Berks dollar data showed, showed, you know that when an alligator lives inside fluoridated water all the time, at least in Kansas City, the backbone of the crater gets all bent, distorted, and they get silicosis of the liver. And then and then they perish quickly. And then and then a whole alligator farm had to be closed in Kansas City after this city fluoridated water. So the gharials I was worried about because they can't stand up on their high on their legs, they have to drag themselves on the ground along their belly. And if they had liver silicosis at all, they wouldn't be able to, to move I thought, well anyway that I went back four months later. And by the time I got back there, the garret alligators were dead. So I asked people at the zoo and the vets didn't want to talk to me. I mean, when you mentioned the F word, nobody, everybody goes and hides, they don't want to see you. But I talked with a public personnel person, and gave them the girl alligator. I mean, the alligator paper in fluoride, from Dr. Versus dollar, and She promised she'd give it to the vet. Next thing you know, a couple months later, they decided to go ahead and restock the pen with with more gharials they got from Pakistan. But they were redoing the entire water supply. They redid the whole thing the zoo did. So the now that they now they get our own water that they've always had for the amphibians, frogs can leave it where the water goes right through their skin. And so they've had for a long time, they've had our own water for their amphibians, they just expanded that for the gharials as well and mixed it with 10% sea water that they liked. And they're protected now and had been down and down there and the new alligators are fine. And so, you know, I never get any thanks, of course, but the animals are happy, and the vets still don't want to talk about it either at the wildlife park or the zoo, they just they don't want to fight against the city. They're afraid of the city, I think and afraid to speak out about it. But the animals, those animals anyway, are now now protected. Rest of the animals are kind of stuck having to fend for themselves. So my my suspicion is their their lifespan will be shortened. They 10% or so whatever. And you know that that's just the way it's going to be I guess, if we can

Doug 1:37:31 get one of the other things, I think you said was that when fluoridation was first proposed to San Diego, the zoo opposed it, but then they lost donors to the zoo as a result of opposing fluoridation. So that's why they kept quiet about it ever since. Isn't that true?

Richard Sauerheber 1:37:47 Yeah, that's what Dr. Kennedy told me. He follows on pretty closely with that. And when that was going on, yeah, yes. Yeah. That's the thing politics. Zoo wants to remain apolitical. But to me, it's more than politics. You know, when you're dealing with the health of people and animals. It's not it's not politics anymore. But that's how they view it still, and they just don't want to talk about it.

Clint Griess 1:38:09 All right. Thank you very much, Doug. It's great to hear your voice on the line. I'm inviting more questions for our three presenters today. But I'd like I'd like to ask question. It's actually a little off topic. But we've had some news lately, about the city of Dallas, Dallas, Texas ends water fluoridation. And then I've heard that it's not exactly true.

Doug 1:38:36 Yeah, I've been. I don't know. Am I still on the line? I don't know. This is Doug.

Clint Griess 1:38:41 Well, Doug, if you have a definitive answer, because that's what I'm looking for. I

Doug 1:38:44 track that down. It turns out it was like one or two bloggers, that that said that. Dallas and did fluoridation and the story spread all over the internet to websites that just pick up stories without researching before they put them on their site, apparently. And I've been going around the internet getting that story off the internet because it's false. What happened was, there's an activist who has been going to Dallas city council meetings for a number of years. And then she finally got three of them to sort of come to her side. And that was major news, apparently, in Dallas, that three, the city councilman out of 15. We're now sympathetic to her views. Well, that got translated by some blog writer into Dallas and fluoridation, which was spread all around the internet on these various websites. But it wasn't true with a Dallas still fluoridating the water they weren't even close to ending fluoridation in Dallas. But that's what happens. The news on the Internet is people read things that are on Blogger websites, and they believe that they're true without the repeater without bothering to check to see if it is true. You know, that's what happened with that story. So the story is gradually disappearing because I'm every time I find it, I write to the people and say, Well, this is false, you know, and then the story goes off their website and actually, one website that did this was called collective evolution. And here's what happened with them. They said it was Dallas. This is probably the As we started the rumor, right? So he said Dallas and fluoridation so I wrote a wrote a comment about there, I said, this is false. And why don't you check with a major news media, etc, etc. So what that guy did is he just changed his article, he changed that he rewrote his article and deleted my comment from his comment thread, you know, so my comments gone, but he changed his article to something else, which Dallas is considering any fluoridation or something like or whatever it was, but he actually just rewrote his article and deleted my comment. And that was the end of it for him, you know. So these kinds of things are regrettable, you know, when they happen, and I counter him as much as I can. Because what happens is, people on our site tend to believe and repeat it, and then we look like idiots. They look like they're fools when they repeat this nonsense, you know? Anyway, that's, that's my opinion on and I get a little worked up about, I'm afraid, but I think people should be accurate or reporting about Florida, that's one thing our side tries to do is be accurate with what we say, you know? Because that's where we green credibility. We don't we're not credible. And we make statements like that, you know?

Clint Griess 1:41:03 Yes. Well, thanks for doing that good work, Doug, to keep it straight. I was, you know, we're all prepared to celebrate. And so you know, we're looking for the good news. But unfortunately, not this time. But we need to keep it clean. We keep it straight, because our credibility is on the line. So who else has a question for one of our presenters today? Go ahead and hit the one on your keypad. If you have a question or comment about the teleconference at large, what topics you'd like to see in the future, perhaps, Susan, from Anchorage,

Susan Canaan (Anchorage Alaska) 1:41:40 say hello, hi. Hi. I went through a hip replacement. And I've been trying to get analysis of the bone and I couldn't find a medical facility to take the bone. And I had an environmental lab, analyze it. But I'm asking the presenters if and I've talked to Kathy about this before, too, is there is some facility that will take my bone sample and give me an analysis, the Environmental Lab said it was 1500 parts per million fluoride of dried bone ash. But I'd like to confirm that with a laboratory that does human bone routinely.

Clint Griess 1:42:26 wants to take that question.

Kathy Justice 1:42:31 Well, unfortunately, I don't think there are any labs in the US public labs that will do anything like that. And I think that the reason being is that the four i Believing industries have done a good job at keeping this information sequestered, and if there were labs to do it, then it wouldn't be.

Susan Canaan (Anchorage Alaska) 1:42:57 I think you've evolved from femur, you know, when they do the hip replacement, they take the head of the femur off that particular bone if we can get a group of people collecting that bone. So we could finally get a laboratory to analyze it, I think would be very telling, you know how, as a population, we are being over fluoridated. And it was very interesting to hear the presenter about all the different animal bones that were done. But it seems to me that that's, you know, what people don't want to ask themselves down. Oh, the other thing is, you know, in other words before they die, but maybe we could look into analyzing cremated remains and track them versus their lifetime of fluoridation i Although I know, cremation is quite high temperature and you'd have to worry about losing fluoride. But that's a whole area of potential samples human samples to track fluoride exposure. And I don't know if that's out there yet, or I just really encourage the fluoride movement to to look into that great party

Kathy Justice 1:44:04 line that did some research on on hipbones already up in Canada, I wonder where if he had his own lab or if he there was a lab that he sent it to? Seems like he mentioned one time that he had his own lab and did his own testing and I know he doesn't have a lab now.

Susan Canaan (Anchorage Alaska) 1:44:32 Okay, well, I just thought I just put that out there. I'm technically I'm a chemist, and I really believe I was exposed to hydrogen hydrogen fluoride compounds gaseous Yes, at the area where they're added in the water treatment plant in Washington DC. And so I think that's kind of where I'm at picked up a little bit more than, you know, the average person I'm beginning to wonder why if I had fluoride poisoning, everybody else my age 64/4 And like, I did, but I think I actually got a little extra shot of it with the water treatment plant, but I just really want to get the information out there how serious a person can get poisoned, you know, with a lifetime of exposure, you know, I parathyroid surgery, the hip replacement kidney stones, you're just you just name all arthritis symptoms, hair loss thyroid goiter, you know, and I've written this up in the website, I mean, Facebook page, fluoride, free Alaska. And my post is on February 28. My whole story about my experiences with fluoride. And I just really wanted to encourage the researchers out there to come up with some innovative ways to measure fluoride exposure in humans over this life, you know, lifetime exposure.

Clint Griess 1:45:55 You Yes, indeed. That's a big, big blank spot. We don't have enough data there.

Kathy Justice 1:46:01 Until we find a place to be able to test these things. It might be an idea for somebody to start a bank like Dr. Kelly has for his bones and teeth and tailbone and things, too, you know, and get all the information like you have of your fluoride exposure and be able to put it with it. And when a place is found, then then that the specimens would be ready to be good to go versus having to collect them after a blaze of sound.

Clint Griess 1:46:36 Well, yes, well, folks, thank you so much. This has been an awesome conversation. And we are now at the end of our time together. For the official part of this teleconference. I want to thank everyone again for showing up. And thanks to everyone who helped promote the teleconference by sharing it with a friend or posting on Facebook, we've got to get the word out, the more people who come on to these calls, the better. So thank you, everyone, and look forward to an email for tomorrow with a link to the audio recording, which you can share with all your friends and fellow advocates, together with links to relevant websites have mentioned on this on this teleconference and the photographs and reports that you have been seeing, as well. So you will also see in that email a link. So you may register for next month's teleconference. And I hope to see you all quote unquote, see you all again, on June 14, or down under June 15. At the same time, and I really, really, really, really, really would appreciate emails from every one of you. So let me know what content do you want to hear what will make you show up no matter what, what will? What kind of teleconference conversation would you consider most valuable considering what you're facing these days in your battle against fluoridation. So I invite you all to stay on the line if you care to. I'm going to be breaking everyone up into small groups. Otherwise, thank you very much. And goodbye. Just go ahead and in a few minutes, start to say hello and introduce yourself and you can be in conversation as long as you want and you will be on you'll, you'll be on your own. When you can stay on as long as you want. Make sure to exchange contact information with each other, just in case somebody accidentally drops off or what have you. Okay, thank you and best wishes to everyone. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai